As I seldom disagree with your conclusions, this comment is hard to write. First I am 85 years old and have times that I would rather do anything but have a discussion with anyone else. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to have Pres. Biden legitimize Trump by having a debate with absurd conditions should be fired. No one should be on a stage with a rapist , felon , liar and conman as if they are equals. And it was not a debate, it was an oratory contest and Biden lost. We all agree and though the race has been close and the media has been biased for over a year, along with many of the courts, Biden has been exceptional as a President. State of the Union......Interviews overseas, bipartisan deals, no problem and with little support from those who kept giving Trump all the airtime and coverage they gave when he ran against Hillary.......because he's a showman and a cult leader and gets good ratings . The following day, Biden spoke of his age and his limitations in NC and in NYC and looked and sounded better and stronger. Little has been said of giving the stage to a convicted felon who is yet to receive his sentence for his last crime while his entire party applauds him and follows him over the cliff. If Presdent Biden thinks he is not able to be President for another 4 years, he will resign. He is a man of principal and morals and cares deeply about this country and all of its citizens. I could never think of not voting for him against Trump and I am sure many others feel the same. No one would ask Clint Eastwood to give up making films if his last one was a bomb, nor ask any other politician to leave office because they make no sense when they speak but it's okay to ask the President to quit because he had a bad night on stage. Would they have asked Teddy Kennedy to leave after Chapaquidick or Mc Cain to leave after Sarah Palin? Nope. Didn't happen and they went on to do some of their best work in politics. I'm just so angry with the lack of support Biden has gotten for one bad performance. More then 100 million voters never turned into the debacle on CNN because debates change very few minds. It didn't change mine and I didn't watch it all the way through. I too wish that there was a healthy choice besides Biden to take on the Republican Party and Trump but there isn't. When the other side gets Trump to quit running so he can stay out of jail, i will be more open to asking the the strongest Presdient we've had in years to step down. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.
Yes, it was a painful performance for a lot of reasons but I'm going to just share my response to the same question asked on historian Steven Beschloss' Substack: www.americaamerica.news/p/can-biden-still-save-america :
I'm voting for the ADMINISTRATION headed by a decent man who knows how to choose competent, intelligent people to important posts. I'm voting for the PARTY PLATFORM that will enshrine a woman's right to control her own self, to allow people to live and let live and love whomever their heart chooses, and expand Voting Rights.
In essence, I'm voting for FDR in 1940 when the conservatives are backing Hitler in 1933.
ADDITION: You don't jump the ship when you hit a gale. You batten down the hatches and weather it through. Ask Obama after his first totally disastrous debate as an incumbent in 2012. And how many people will seriously remember this in October when there is so much that can/will happen between now and then? Buckle up, buttercup!
Yes, it was a disaster and heartbreaking. What I learned yesterday is that, because of camera angles, during those times when he appeared to be staring frozen into space, he was looking at the moderators. (And, no fact-checking until 3am???) Sigh.
Gee Dave, You’re a puppy at 68. Wanna trade? I felt more encouraged by comments sent you by the 80+ aged and 90+ aged respondents than you. I am not encouraged by the younger generations’ short sidedness that they don’t see the dangers which lie ahead for this fragile democracy. President Biden rescued me from my depressed mindset when he spoke again on Friday in NC. Then I wake this early morning to read your sad commentary. Snap out of it! As Sen. Fetterman said,
“Chill the f- - k out!” The Atlantic wrote the Democratic Party is healthy to speak to concerns about our President more so than no one did in the GOP speaking out against Trump’s horrendous lies. Well, isn’t that special. We are better as a Party to back our man than to cast him aside. I guess I finally have to acknowledge my age of 76 with my comments. President Biden needs us to be proud and supportive of him - just as we continued our pride and support of our own parents as they aged. They weren’t running our country but they were there for us. Let’s be there for him.
…and I hit Send too quickly. Another thing: Trump was HORRIBLE. Lying relentlessly, absolutely hideous. But nobody talks about that because he’s always that way, we expect it, ho-hum. That’s insane! The conversation should be more about HIM. The one thing he DID do well was to perfect the Gish Gallop (look it up if necessary). I’m upset about Biden’s performance too, but the focus has to be on the existential threat of Trump. I’d vote for Biden a million times before I’d vote for Trump.
Look up the Gish Gallop. Trump spewed out words that silenced the moderators as well as Biden. He took advantage of the situation. Joe is still great, albeit old, but Trump is a total disaster. Yet, there were crickets about ousting HIM from the candidacy. Tough times, I'll stick with Biden to carry us through until we get a better list of younger candidates.
Heather cox Richardson reminded readers of the Gish Gallop which was a debate tactic perfected from the Reagan years. Steve miller and Steve bannon are masters of it.
Biden looked and sounded terrible. Trump is a hulking, lying dictator in the making. Where are the calls for the GOP to replace Trump with someone who isn’t fixated on golf, sharks , Hannibal Lector, deportation, revenge, power grabbing, and Putin loving.
Yeah, Biden is old but he’s not stocking his cabinet with Christian Nationalists who are rubbing their hands together with glee over the Gilead they plan to create.
It’s easy to look strong when you don’t have to remember facts or support your arguments. You can just lie.
My dear beloved Fitz, you rarely let us down as you have now. 1. Projection of your own recent brushes. 2. Panicking without reflecting on your subject.
I watched for only ten minutes and had to shut it down. Yes, appearances matter, but Biden is one of the greatest presidents we have had in our lifetime, Fitz. If you had bombed in one performance would you have expected to be eliminated from performing for the rest of your life? It is precisely because we are all so shallow that style trumps substance. It is trump who should be shamed for piling lie upon lie upon lie with the intention of taking our government back about 100 years. You need to rethink your position this time! Biden needs us all to save this country from despotism.
David, I was disappointed in the debate myself. There seemed to be more name calling and just plain arguing than anything else. I am 90 myself, and both men should have been capable of way more than they did. Neither one acted as I felt they should have. What everyone seems to be disregarding is that Donald Trump is a convicted felon and a liar.
Enough clutching of pearls. I’m with Gavin Newsome - we stick with Joe. Stumbles aside, he still knows more about how to be a good president than anyone else that you might pick. The age thing is a media construct designed to pander to panic.
Your adoring fans (that includes me) have spoken: PLEASE do not give in to the panic! Why did you even WATCH the debate? It's pointless. It was nothing more than a poorly organized and executed talent show with one goal - cable news ratings. All blithering soundbites, no substance. I think Jessica said it best: Anybody who votes for a traitorous, racist convicted felon for president deserves to have a traitorous, racist convicted felon as president.
Don't fall for the great hype machine, Brother Dave. Keep fighting the good fight!
Dems strategy was terrible. Why they allowed Biden to debate a convicted felon (good reason not to debate) thus giving DJT more exposure and credibility. Whatever upside there was, was much less than the downside of Biden performing poorly. Which, apparently, he did Their “strategists” are dingbats and probably gave “Hitler II” the presidency. BTW, I'm also older than Joe B.
I'm not sure if the studio camera tally lights were turned off or if Biden just didn't see them but he consistently looked at the wrong camera and the CNN control room did nothing to correct the problem. That made a bad situation even worse. Coupled with Biden's attempt to actually answer the questions while #45 just glibly spewed what he wanted to say regardless of the question made Biden look much worse than he actually was. The foregoing plus moderators who did no fact checking makes me think that this whole thing was a setup by CNN upper management. It certainly wasn't a "debate". Democratic campaign staff heads should roll over this one.
This time, dear Dave, I must disagree with you. Biden has a great team. He's had a heavy haul pulling our country back up since those horrid Trump years. One bad debate performance ...big deal....are any of us perfect? I'm voting for Biden and his team.
As I seldom disagree with your conclusions, this comment is hard to write. First I am 85 years old and have times that I would rather do anything but have a discussion with anyone else. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to have Pres. Biden legitimize Trump by having a debate with absurd conditions should be fired. No one should be on a stage with a rapist , felon , liar and conman as if they are equals. And it was not a debate, it was an oratory contest and Biden lost. We all agree and though the race has been close and the media has been biased for over a year, along with many of the courts, Biden has been exceptional as a President. State of the Union......Interviews overseas, bipartisan deals, no problem and with little support from those who kept giving Trump all the airtime and coverage they gave when he ran against Hillary.......because he's a showman and a cult leader and gets good ratings . The following day, Biden spoke of his age and his limitations in NC and in NYC and looked and sounded better and stronger. Little has been said of giving the stage to a convicted felon who is yet to receive his sentence for his last crime while his entire party applauds him and follows him over the cliff. If Presdent Biden thinks he is not able to be President for another 4 years, he will resign. He is a man of principal and morals and cares deeply about this country and all of its citizens. I could never think of not voting for him against Trump and I am sure many others feel the same. No one would ask Clint Eastwood to give up making films if his last one was a bomb, nor ask any other politician to leave office because they make no sense when they speak but it's okay to ask the President to quit because he had a bad night on stage. Would they have asked Teddy Kennedy to leave after Chapaquidick or Mc Cain to leave after Sarah Palin? Nope. Didn't happen and they went on to do some of their best work in politics. I'm just so angry with the lack of support Biden has gotten for one bad performance. More then 100 million voters never turned into the debacle on CNN because debates change very few minds. It didn't change mine and I didn't watch it all the way through. I too wish that there was a healthy choice besides Biden to take on the Republican Party and Trump but there isn't. When the other side gets Trump to quit running so he can stay out of jail, i will be more open to asking the the strongest Presdient we've had in years to step down. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.
Thank you for stating exactly what I think!😊
Well said, Jessica. I couldn't agree more. Jim Dreis
Thank you, Jessica.
Yes, it was a painful performance for a lot of reasons but I'm going to just share my response to the same question asked on historian Steven Beschloss' Substack: www.americaamerica.news/p/can-biden-still-save-america :
I'm voting for the ADMINISTRATION headed by a decent man who knows how to choose competent, intelligent people to important posts. I'm voting for the PARTY PLATFORM that will enshrine a woman's right to control her own self, to allow people to live and let live and love whomever their heart chooses, and expand Voting Rights.
In essence, I'm voting for FDR in 1940 when the conservatives are backing Hitler in 1933.
ADDITION: You don't jump the ship when you hit a gale. You batten down the hatches and weather it through. Ask Obama after his first totally disastrous debate as an incumbent in 2012. And how many people will seriously remember this in October when there is so much that can/will happen between now and then? Buckle up, buttercup!
Yes, it was a disaster and heartbreaking. What I learned yesterday is that, because of camera angles, during those times when he appeared to be staring frozen into space, he was looking at the moderators. (And, no fact-checking until 3am???) Sigh.
Gee Dave, You’re a puppy at 68. Wanna trade? I felt more encouraged by comments sent you by the 80+ aged and 90+ aged respondents than you. I am not encouraged by the younger generations’ short sidedness that they don’t see the dangers which lie ahead for this fragile democracy. President Biden rescued me from my depressed mindset when he spoke again on Friday in NC. Then I wake this early morning to read your sad commentary. Snap out of it! As Sen. Fetterman said,
“Chill the f- - k out!” The Atlantic wrote the Democratic Party is healthy to speak to concerns about our President more so than no one did in the GOP speaking out against Trump’s horrendous lies. Well, isn’t that special. We are better as a Party to back our man than to cast him aside. I guess I finally have to acknowledge my age of 76 with my comments. President Biden needs us to be proud and supportive of him - just as we continued our pride and support of our own parents as they aged. They weren’t running our country but they were there for us. Let’s be there for him.
…and I hit Send too quickly. Another thing: Trump was HORRIBLE. Lying relentlessly, absolutely hideous. But nobody talks about that because he’s always that way, we expect it, ho-hum. That’s insane! The conversation should be more about HIM. The one thing he DID do well was to perfect the Gish Gallop (look it up if necessary). I’m upset about Biden’s performance too, but the focus has to be on the existential threat of Trump. I’d vote for Biden a million times before I’d vote for Trump.
Look up the Gish Gallop. Trump spewed out words that silenced the moderators as well as Biden. He took advantage of the situation. Joe is still great, albeit old, but Trump is a total disaster. Yet, there were crickets about ousting HIM from the candidacy. Tough times, I'll stick with Biden to carry us through until we get a better list of younger candidates.
Heather cox Richardson reminded readers of the Gish Gallop which was a debate tactic perfected from the Reagan years. Steve miller and Steve bannon are masters of it.
Biden looked and sounded terrible. Trump is a hulking, lying dictator in the making. Where are the calls for the GOP to replace Trump with someone who isn’t fixated on golf, sharks , Hannibal Lector, deportation, revenge, power grabbing, and Putin loving.
Yeah, Biden is old but he’s not stocking his cabinet with Christian Nationalists who are rubbing their hands together with glee over the Gilead they plan to create.
It’s easy to look strong when you don’t have to remember facts or support your arguments. You can just lie.
My dear beloved Fitz, you rarely let us down as you have now. 1. Projection of your own recent brushes. 2. Panicking without reflecting on your subject.
Jim Fallows, wiser than most of us, had this take: https://open.substack.com/pub/fallows/p/election-countdown-130-days-to-go?r=1o75pm&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Jay Kuo panicked like you did, then came back with a retraction and second thoughts.
Heather Cox Richardson found some things to worry about more than Joe's performance.
And along with the rest of us, you've watched the NYT go sour and bitter, using the headline wars to pour endless s*it into the situation.
Go deeper, man.
Love,
Caroline
I watched for only ten minutes and had to shut it down. Yes, appearances matter, but Biden is one of the greatest presidents we have had in our lifetime, Fitz. If you had bombed in one performance would you have expected to be eliminated from performing for the rest of your life? It is precisely because we are all so shallow that style trumps substance. It is trump who should be shamed for piling lie upon lie upon lie with the intention of taking our government back about 100 years. You need to rethink your position this time! Biden needs us all to save this country from despotism.
David, I was disappointed in the debate myself. There seemed to be more name calling and just plain arguing than anything else. I am 90 myself, and both men should have been capable of way more than they did. Neither one acted as I felt they should have. What everyone seems to be disregarding is that Donald Trump is a convicted felon and a liar.
Enough clutching of pearls. I’m with Gavin Newsome - we stick with Joe. Stumbles aside, he still knows more about how to be a good president than anyone else that you might pick. The age thing is a media construct designed to pander to panic.
Gini Gethmann
Dear David,
Your adoring fans (that includes me) have spoken: PLEASE do not give in to the panic! Why did you even WATCH the debate? It's pointless. It was nothing more than a poorly organized and executed talent show with one goal - cable news ratings. All blithering soundbites, no substance. I think Jessica said it best: Anybody who votes for a traitorous, racist convicted felon for president deserves to have a traitorous, racist convicted felon as president.
Don't fall for the great hype machine, Brother Dave. Keep fighting the good fight!
Dems strategy was terrible. Why they allowed Biden to debate a convicted felon (good reason not to debate) thus giving DJT more exposure and credibility. Whatever upside there was, was much less than the downside of Biden performing poorly. Which, apparently, he did Their “strategists” are dingbats and probably gave “Hitler II” the presidency. BTW, I'm also older than Joe B.
I'm not sure if the studio camera tally lights were turned off or if Biden just didn't see them but he consistently looked at the wrong camera and the CNN control room did nothing to correct the problem. That made a bad situation even worse. Coupled with Biden's attempt to actually answer the questions while #45 just glibly spewed what he wanted to say regardless of the question made Biden look much worse than he actually was. The foregoing plus moderators who did no fact checking makes me think that this whole thing was a setup by CNN upper management. It certainly wasn't a "debate". Democratic campaign staff heads should roll over this one.
This time, dear Dave, I must disagree with you. Biden has a great team. He's had a heavy haul pulling our country back up since those horrid Trump years. One bad debate performance ...big deal....are any of us perfect? I'm voting for Biden and his team.
You left out Sen. Mark Kelly if only he would announce, he is the only person who can bring both sides together again and save the country.