As I seldom disagree with your conclusions, this comment is hard to write. First I am 85 years old and have times that I would rather do anything but have a discussion with anyone else. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to have Pres. Biden legitimize Trump by having a debate with absurd conditions should be fired. No one should be on a stage with a rapist , felon , liar and conman as if they are equals. And it was not a debate, it was an oratory contest and Biden lost. We all agree and though the race has been close and the media has been biased for over a year, along with many of the courts, Biden has been exceptional as a President. State of the Union......Interviews overseas, bipartisan deals, no problem and with little support from those who kept giving Trump all the airtime and coverage they gave when he ran against Hillary.......because he's a showman and a cult leader and gets good ratings . The following day, Biden spoke of his age and his limitations in NC and in NYC and looked and sounded better and stronger. Little has been said of giving the stage to a convicted felon who is yet to receive his sentence for his last crime while his entire party applauds him and follows him over the cliff. If Presdent Biden thinks he is not able to be President for another 4 years, he will resign. He is a man of principal and morals and cares deeply about this country and all of its citizens. I could never think of not voting for him against Trump and I am sure many others feel the same. No one would ask Clint Eastwood to give up making films if his last one was a bomb, nor ask any other politician to leave office because they make no sense when they speak but it's okay to ask the President to quit because he had a bad night on stage. Would they have asked Teddy Kennedy to leave after Chapaquidick or Mc Cain to leave after Sarah Palin? Nope. Didn't happen and they went on to do some of their best work in politics. I'm just so angry with the lack of support Biden has gotten for one bad performance. More then 100 million voters never turned into the debacle on CNN because debates change very few minds. It didn't change mine and I didn't watch it all the way through. I too wish that there was a healthy choice besides Biden to take on the Republican Party and Trump but there isn't. When the other side gets Trump to quit running so he can stay out of jail, i will be more open to asking the the strongest Presdient we've had in years to step down. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.
Reagan had Alzheimers during his 2nd term. He spent most of his time eating jelly beans and sleeping.
FDR was more than half dead already at Yalta. A ghost in his wheelchair.
President Biden has surrounded himself with much younger people from every walk of life. The most youthful and diverse group of people from the VP to his cabinet to his advisors to his staff.
The POTUS is not a King or a Dictator. He doesn't rule the country. He doesn't act alone surrounded by sycophants.
trump made people believe that he does because he is a fascist who admires dictators and yearns to be one.
He has the entire R party behind this what was once an unimaginable scenario of American democracy being replaced with a fascist dictatorship and himself as American's Putin.
Although I wish President Biden hadn't run for a 2nd term, but rather passed the torch then, I believe that once trump announced his candidacy for 2024 and was not being charged immediately for trying to overthrow the government ( I can't even believe I'm writing those words) he felt like he did after Charlottesville. He had beat back fascism in 2020 and felt that if he didn't run again he would be abdicating his constitutional and moral duty to the country. Like FDR running for a 4th term when he was practically dead already. He had to see it through to stop Hitler. As we know he died in office while we were still in the Pacific and Truman dropped the bomb. If President Biden doesn't drop out and the DNC and his advisors aren't going to convince him to then we stand by him and use every surrogate we have to make sure he's reelected. The country will continue to function as a democracy NOT a fascist dictatorship.
Yes, it was a painful performance for a lot of reasons but I'm going to just share my response to the same question asked on historian Steven Beschloss' Substack: www.americaamerica.news/p/can-biden-still-save-america :
I'm voting for the ADMINISTRATION headed by a decent man who knows how to choose competent, intelligent people to important posts. I'm voting for the PARTY PLATFORM that will enshrine a woman's right to control her own self, to allow people to live and let live and love whomever their heart chooses, and expand Voting Rights.
In essence, I'm voting for FDR in 1940 when the conservatives are backing Hitler in 1933.
ADDITION: You don't jump the ship when you hit a gale. You batten down the hatches and weather it through. Ask Obama after his first totally disastrous debate as an incumbent in 2012. And how many people will seriously remember this in October when there is so much that can/will happen between now and then? Buckle up, buttercup!
Yes, it was a disaster and heartbreaking. What I learned yesterday is that, because of camera angles, during those times when he appeared to be staring frozen into space, he was looking at the moderators. (And, no fact-checking until 3am???) Sigh.
Gee Dave, You’re a puppy at 68. Wanna trade? I felt more encouraged by comments sent you by the 80+ aged and 90+ aged respondents than you. I am not encouraged by the younger generations’ short sidedness that they don’t see the dangers which lie ahead for this fragile democracy. President Biden rescued me from my depressed mindset when he spoke again on Friday in NC. Then I wake this early morning to read your sad commentary. Snap out of it! As Sen. Fetterman said,
“Chill the f- - k out!” The Atlantic wrote the Democratic Party is healthy to speak to concerns about our President more so than no one did in the GOP speaking out against Trump’s horrendous lies. Well, isn’t that special. We are better as a Party to back our man than to cast him aside. I guess I finally have to acknowledge my age of 76 with my comments. President Biden needs us to be proud and supportive of him - just as we continued our pride and support of our own parents as they aged. They weren’t running our country but they were there for us. Let’s be there for him.
…and I hit Send too quickly. Another thing: Trump was HORRIBLE. Lying relentlessly, absolutely hideous. But nobody talks about that because he’s always that way, we expect it, ho-hum. That’s insane! The conversation should be more about HIM. The one thing he DID do well was to perfect the Gish Gallop (look it up if necessary). I’m upset about Biden’s performance too, but the focus has to be on the existential threat of Trump. I’d vote for Biden a million times before I’d vote for Trump.
Look up the Gish Gallop. Trump spewed out words that silenced the moderators as well as Biden. He took advantage of the situation. Joe is still great, albeit old, but Trump is a total disaster. Yet, there were crickets about ousting HIM from the candidacy. Tough times, I'll stick with Biden to carry us through until we get a better list of younger candidates.
Heather cox Richardson reminded readers of the Gish Gallop which was a debate tactic perfected from the Reagan years. Steve miller and Steve bannon are masters of it.
Biden looked and sounded terrible. Trump is a hulking, lying dictator in the making. Where are the calls for the GOP to replace Trump with someone who isn’t fixated on golf, sharks , Hannibal Lector, deportation, revenge, power grabbing, and Putin loving.
Yeah, Biden is old but he’s not stocking his cabinet with Christian Nationalists who are rubbing their hands together with glee over the Gilead they plan to create.
It’s easy to look strong when you don’t have to remember facts or support your arguments. You can just lie.
My dear beloved Fitz, you rarely let us down as you have now. 1. Projection of your own recent brushes. 2. Panicking without reflecting on your subject.
I watched for only ten minutes and had to shut it down. Yes, appearances matter, but Biden is one of the greatest presidents we have had in our lifetime, Fitz. If you had bombed in one performance would you have expected to be eliminated from performing for the rest of your life? It is precisely because we are all so shallow that style trumps substance. It is trump who should be shamed for piling lie upon lie upon lie with the intention of taking our government back about 100 years. You need to rethink your position this time! Biden needs us all to save this country from despotism.
David, I was disappointed in the debate myself. There seemed to be more name calling and just plain arguing than anything else. I am 90 myself, and both men should have been capable of way more than they did. Neither one acted as I felt they should have. What everyone seems to be disregarding is that Donald Trump is a convicted felon and a liar.
Enough clutching of pearls. I’m with Gavin Newsome - we stick with Joe. Stumbles aside, he still knows more about how to be a good president than anyone else that you might pick. The age thing is a media construct designed to pander to panic.
Your adoring fans (that includes me) have spoken: PLEASE do not give in to the panic! Why did you even WATCH the debate? It's pointless. It was nothing more than a poorly organized and executed talent show with one goal - cable news ratings. All blithering soundbites, no substance. I think Jessica said it best: Anybody who votes for a traitorous, racist convicted felon for president deserves to have a traitorous, racist convicted felon as president.
Don't fall for the great hype machine, Brother Dave. Keep fighting the good fight!
Dems strategy was terrible. Why they allowed Biden to debate a convicted felon (good reason not to debate) thus giving DJT more exposure and credibility. Whatever upside there was, was much less than the downside of Biden performing poorly. Which, apparently, he did Their “strategists” are dingbats and probably gave “Hitler II” the presidency. BTW, I'm also older than Joe B.
I'm not sure if the studio camera tally lights were turned off or if Biden just didn't see them but he consistently looked at the wrong camera and the CNN control room did nothing to correct the problem. That made a bad situation even worse. Coupled with Biden's attempt to actually answer the questions while #45 just glibly spewed what he wanted to say regardless of the question made Biden look much worse than he actually was. The foregoing plus moderators who did no fact checking makes me think that this whole thing was a setup by CNN upper management. It certainly wasn't a "debate". Democratic campaign staff heads should roll over this one.
Ditto jessica. No one has yet spoken about ageism to all us boomers, but that is coming. Do we honor our elderly/wise ones ? Hell no. But that could change, as our culture gets old enough to know better than to admire young pups still wet behind their...T. is a v. different matter. This country has lost its moorings to admire such as he. His"jokes" are the hostile meanderings of the deranged & many of us admire that ?? maybe we deserve what we will get for our lack of intelligence.
As I seldom disagree with your conclusions, this comment is hard to write. First I am 85 years old and have times that I would rather do anything but have a discussion with anyone else. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to have Pres. Biden legitimize Trump by having a debate with absurd conditions should be fired. No one should be on a stage with a rapist , felon , liar and conman as if they are equals. And it was not a debate, it was an oratory contest and Biden lost. We all agree and though the race has been close and the media has been biased for over a year, along with many of the courts, Biden has been exceptional as a President. State of the Union......Interviews overseas, bipartisan deals, no problem and with little support from those who kept giving Trump all the airtime and coverage they gave when he ran against Hillary.......because he's a showman and a cult leader and gets good ratings . The following day, Biden spoke of his age and his limitations in NC and in NYC and looked and sounded better and stronger. Little has been said of giving the stage to a convicted felon who is yet to receive his sentence for his last crime while his entire party applauds him and follows him over the cliff. If Presdent Biden thinks he is not able to be President for another 4 years, he will resign. He is a man of principal and morals and cares deeply about this country and all of its citizens. I could never think of not voting for him against Trump and I am sure many others feel the same. No one would ask Clint Eastwood to give up making films if his last one was a bomb, nor ask any other politician to leave office because they make no sense when they speak but it's okay to ask the President to quit because he had a bad night on stage. Would they have asked Teddy Kennedy to leave after Chapaquidick or Mc Cain to leave after Sarah Palin? Nope. Didn't happen and they went on to do some of their best work in politics. I'm just so angry with the lack of support Biden has gotten for one bad performance. More then 100 million voters never turned into the debacle on CNN because debates change very few minds. It didn't change mine and I didn't watch it all the way through. I too wish that there was a healthy choice besides Biden to take on the Republican Party and Trump but there isn't. When the other side gets Trump to quit running so he can stay out of jail, i will be more open to asking the the strongest Presdient we've had in years to step down. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.
Thank you for stating exactly what I think!😊
Well said, Jessica. I couldn't agree more. Jim Dreis
Thank you, Jessica.
Here's something historical to think about.
Reagan had Alzheimers during his 2nd term. He spent most of his time eating jelly beans and sleeping.
FDR was more than half dead already at Yalta. A ghost in his wheelchair.
President Biden has surrounded himself with much younger people from every walk of life. The most youthful and diverse group of people from the VP to his cabinet to his advisors to his staff.
The POTUS is not a King or a Dictator. He doesn't rule the country. He doesn't act alone surrounded by sycophants.
trump made people believe that he does because he is a fascist who admires dictators and yearns to be one.
He has the entire R party behind this what was once an unimaginable scenario of American democracy being replaced with a fascist dictatorship and himself as American's Putin.
Although I wish President Biden hadn't run for a 2nd term, but rather passed the torch then, I believe that once trump announced his candidacy for 2024 and was not being charged immediately for trying to overthrow the government ( I can't even believe I'm writing those words) he felt like he did after Charlottesville. He had beat back fascism in 2020 and felt that if he didn't run again he would be abdicating his constitutional and moral duty to the country. Like FDR running for a 4th term when he was practically dead already. He had to see it through to stop Hitler. As we know he died in office while we were still in the Pacific and Truman dropped the bomb. If President Biden doesn't drop out and the DNC and his advisors aren't going to convince him to then we stand by him and use every surrogate we have to make sure he's reelected. The country will continue to function as a democracy NOT a fascist dictatorship.
And that's all that matters.
Yes, it was a painful performance for a lot of reasons but I'm going to just share my response to the same question asked on historian Steven Beschloss' Substack: www.americaamerica.news/p/can-biden-still-save-america :
I'm voting for the ADMINISTRATION headed by a decent man who knows how to choose competent, intelligent people to important posts. I'm voting for the PARTY PLATFORM that will enshrine a woman's right to control her own self, to allow people to live and let live and love whomever their heart chooses, and expand Voting Rights.
In essence, I'm voting for FDR in 1940 when the conservatives are backing Hitler in 1933.
ADDITION: You don't jump the ship when you hit a gale. You batten down the hatches and weather it through. Ask Obama after his first totally disastrous debate as an incumbent in 2012. And how many people will seriously remember this in October when there is so much that can/will happen between now and then? Buckle up, buttercup!
Yes, it was a disaster and heartbreaking. What I learned yesterday is that, because of camera angles, during those times when he appeared to be staring frozen into space, he was looking at the moderators. (And, no fact-checking until 3am???) Sigh.
Gee Dave, You’re a puppy at 68. Wanna trade? I felt more encouraged by comments sent you by the 80+ aged and 90+ aged respondents than you. I am not encouraged by the younger generations’ short sidedness that they don’t see the dangers which lie ahead for this fragile democracy. President Biden rescued me from my depressed mindset when he spoke again on Friday in NC. Then I wake this early morning to read your sad commentary. Snap out of it! As Sen. Fetterman said,
“Chill the f- - k out!” The Atlantic wrote the Democratic Party is healthy to speak to concerns about our President more so than no one did in the GOP speaking out against Trump’s horrendous lies. Well, isn’t that special. We are better as a Party to back our man than to cast him aside. I guess I finally have to acknowledge my age of 76 with my comments. President Biden needs us to be proud and supportive of him - just as we continued our pride and support of our own parents as they aged. They weren’t running our country but they were there for us. Let’s be there for him.
…and I hit Send too quickly. Another thing: Trump was HORRIBLE. Lying relentlessly, absolutely hideous. But nobody talks about that because he’s always that way, we expect it, ho-hum. That’s insane! The conversation should be more about HIM. The one thing he DID do well was to perfect the Gish Gallop (look it up if necessary). I’m upset about Biden’s performance too, but the focus has to be on the existential threat of Trump. I’d vote for Biden a million times before I’d vote for Trump.
Look up the Gish Gallop. Trump spewed out words that silenced the moderators as well as Biden. He took advantage of the situation. Joe is still great, albeit old, but Trump is a total disaster. Yet, there were crickets about ousting HIM from the candidacy. Tough times, I'll stick with Biden to carry us through until we get a better list of younger candidates.
Heather cox Richardson reminded readers of the Gish Gallop which was a debate tactic perfected from the Reagan years. Steve miller and Steve bannon are masters of it.
Biden looked and sounded terrible. Trump is a hulking, lying dictator in the making. Where are the calls for the GOP to replace Trump with someone who isn’t fixated on golf, sharks , Hannibal Lector, deportation, revenge, power grabbing, and Putin loving.
Yeah, Biden is old but he’s not stocking his cabinet with Christian Nationalists who are rubbing their hands together with glee over the Gilead they plan to create.
It’s easy to look strong when you don’t have to remember facts or support your arguments. You can just lie.
My dear beloved Fitz, you rarely let us down as you have now. 1. Projection of your own recent brushes. 2. Panicking without reflecting on your subject.
Jim Fallows, wiser than most of us, had this take: https://open.substack.com/pub/fallows/p/election-countdown-130-days-to-go?r=1o75pm&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Jay Kuo panicked like you did, then came back with a retraction and second thoughts.
Heather Cox Richardson found some things to worry about more than Joe's performance.
And along with the rest of us, you've watched the NYT go sour and bitter, using the headline wars to pour endless s*it into the situation.
Go deeper, man.
Love,
Caroline
I watched for only ten minutes and had to shut it down. Yes, appearances matter, but Biden is one of the greatest presidents we have had in our lifetime, Fitz. If you had bombed in one performance would you have expected to be eliminated from performing for the rest of your life? It is precisely because we are all so shallow that style trumps substance. It is trump who should be shamed for piling lie upon lie upon lie with the intention of taking our government back about 100 years. You need to rethink your position this time! Biden needs us all to save this country from despotism.
David, I was disappointed in the debate myself. There seemed to be more name calling and just plain arguing than anything else. I am 90 myself, and both men should have been capable of way more than they did. Neither one acted as I felt they should have. What everyone seems to be disregarding is that Donald Trump is a convicted felon and a liar.
Enough clutching of pearls. I’m with Gavin Newsome - we stick with Joe. Stumbles aside, he still knows more about how to be a good president than anyone else that you might pick. The age thing is a media construct designed to pander to panic.
Gini Gethmann
Dear David,
Your adoring fans (that includes me) have spoken: PLEASE do not give in to the panic! Why did you even WATCH the debate? It's pointless. It was nothing more than a poorly organized and executed talent show with one goal - cable news ratings. All blithering soundbites, no substance. I think Jessica said it best: Anybody who votes for a traitorous, racist convicted felon for president deserves to have a traitorous, racist convicted felon as president.
Don't fall for the great hype machine, Brother Dave. Keep fighting the good fight!
Dems strategy was terrible. Why they allowed Biden to debate a convicted felon (good reason not to debate) thus giving DJT more exposure and credibility. Whatever upside there was, was much less than the downside of Biden performing poorly. Which, apparently, he did Their “strategists” are dingbats and probably gave “Hitler II” the presidency. BTW, I'm also older than Joe B.
I'm not sure if the studio camera tally lights were turned off or if Biden just didn't see them but he consistently looked at the wrong camera and the CNN control room did nothing to correct the problem. That made a bad situation even worse. Coupled with Biden's attempt to actually answer the questions while #45 just glibly spewed what he wanted to say regardless of the question made Biden look much worse than he actually was. The foregoing plus moderators who did no fact checking makes me think that this whole thing was a setup by CNN upper management. It certainly wasn't a "debate". Democratic campaign staff heads should roll over this one.
Ditto jessica. No one has yet spoken about ageism to all us boomers, but that is coming. Do we honor our elderly/wise ones ? Hell no. But that could change, as our culture gets old enough to know better than to admire young pups still wet behind their...T. is a v. different matter. This country has lost its moorings to admire such as he. His"jokes" are the hostile meanderings of the deranged & many of us admire that ?? maybe we deserve what we will get for our lack of intelligence.